Really? Where have I said that I fully believe every single jw doctrine, or demonstrated that the WT can tell me what to think? Or that I am convinced they are definitely right about 1914 etc? Do you have a quote to prove this? Or maybe something to refute my argument as without basis? I'm presenting possible defenses.. nobody tells me what to think or I wouldn't be here, would I ? (Jw's are counselled not to even look at sites like this).. You have no proof of your claim, just a baseless assumption and a neat little label to apply to me so that you don't have to prove that what I've said is wrong.. It'd be nice if you could come back and add something to the discussion rather than just judging me, but don't worry, I won't hold my breath.. Also, maybe you could take a look at post guideline number 1 .. Unless you feel that calling somebody a 'mind control cult person' , with no supporting evidence whatsoever, is not simply an insult? Or provocative?
The Quiet One
JoinedPosts by The Quiet One
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179
The Watchtower is NOT a false prophet
by The Quiet One inregarding what some have said here about the wt being a false prophet.. i would like to make my point regarding the wt not being a false prophet... so please, if you can be patient enough to read this, at least try to understand what i am getting at.. a false prophet is one who, according to deuteronomy, makes a false prediction of the future and claims that the prediction came from god, or in other words claiming that 'god has said he will do a certain thing at a certain time' etc.. for example, hypothetically speaking, if someone had claimed: "god will bring about the end of the world in 2010", they would have been proven to be a false prophet, obviously.
but, as an example, imagine a man who claimed the position of a prophet of god, (as moses did, because although he was not the type of prophet that predicted the future.. he was still a prophet or spokesman for god) and that he had publicised worldwide, according to his interpretation of a (for example) prophecy found in the book of isaiah, that the world would end in 2010.. and he had also stated that he was not saying that god will end the world in that year.. but only that there was biblical evidence that god might do so.
that would clearly have been a mistake.
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179
The Watchtower is NOT a false prophet
by The Quiet One inregarding what some have said here about the wt being a false prophet.. i would like to make my point regarding the wt not being a false prophet... so please, if you can be patient enough to read this, at least try to understand what i am getting at.. a false prophet is one who, according to deuteronomy, makes a false prediction of the future and claims that the prediction came from god, or in other words claiming that 'god has said he will do a certain thing at a certain time' etc.. for example, hypothetically speaking, if someone had claimed: "god will bring about the end of the world in 2010", they would have been proven to be a false prophet, obviously.
but, as an example, imagine a man who claimed the position of a prophet of god, (as moses did, because although he was not the type of prophet that predicted the future.. he was still a prophet or spokesman for god) and that he had publicised worldwide, according to his interpretation of a (for example) prophecy found in the book of isaiah, that the world would end in 2010.. and he had also stated that he was not saying that god will end the world in that year.. but only that there was biblical evidence that god might do so.
that would clearly have been a mistake.
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179
The Watchtower is NOT a false prophet
by The Quiet One inregarding what some have said here about the wt being a false prophet.. i would like to make my point regarding the wt not being a false prophet... so please, if you can be patient enough to read this, at least try to understand what i am getting at.. a false prophet is one who, according to deuteronomy, makes a false prediction of the future and claims that the prediction came from god, or in other words claiming that 'god has said he will do a certain thing at a certain time' etc.. for example, hypothetically speaking, if someone had claimed: "god will bring about the end of the world in 2010", they would have been proven to be a false prophet, obviously.
but, as an example, imagine a man who claimed the position of a prophet of god, (as moses did, because although he was not the type of prophet that predicted the future.. he was still a prophet or spokesman for god) and that he had publicised worldwide, according to his interpretation of a (for example) prophecy found in the book of isaiah, that the world would end in 2010.. and he had also stated that he was not saying that god will end the world in that year.. but only that there was biblical evidence that god might do so.
that would clearly have been a mistake.
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The Quiet One
KNOWSNOTHING said: "If a prophet says something of God is going to happen (on a certain date/year or within a particular timeframe), and it doesn't happen, then they are false prophets. Can we agree with that basic definition?" -- Presuming that I can add what I've added in brackets so that it means something, absolutely. The key words here would be "is going to". The WT never said in 1975 etc. 'God WILL end this system of things/God IS going to' without admitting that it may not happen.. And for the last time.. until the (overlapping) generations prophecy is proven wrong, even your definition cannot apply.
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179
The Watchtower is NOT a false prophet
by The Quiet One inregarding what some have said here about the wt being a false prophet.. i would like to make my point regarding the wt not being a false prophet... so please, if you can be patient enough to read this, at least try to understand what i am getting at.. a false prophet is one who, according to deuteronomy, makes a false prediction of the future and claims that the prediction came from god, or in other words claiming that 'god has said he will do a certain thing at a certain time' etc.. for example, hypothetically speaking, if someone had claimed: "god will bring about the end of the world in 2010", they would have been proven to be a false prophet, obviously.
but, as an example, imagine a man who claimed the position of a prophet of god, (as moses did, because although he was not the type of prophet that predicted the future.. he was still a prophet or spokesman for god) and that he had publicised worldwide, according to his interpretation of a (for example) prophecy found in the book of isaiah, that the world would end in 2010.. and he had also stated that he was not saying that god will end the world in that year.. but only that there was biblical evidence that god might do so.
that would clearly have been a mistake.
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The Quiet One
Phizzy -- If you believe that the main doctrines taught by jw's today make sense with what the Bible says, and not in the Trinity..hellfire..satan not being a person.. Immortal soul..Gods name not to be spoken..and all the 'false' doctrines that jw's have never changed from refuting.. It is a unique combination of beliefs when you put it all together , so if they seem to make sense despite the Bibles complexity, you could view that as evidence.. Or the great distribution of Bibles worldwide, giving people that speak languages that no other religion has printed anything in, the chance to learn about God.. Fantastic coincidences in the Yearbooks etc. But evidence is subjective, decide for yourself.
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179
The Watchtower is NOT a false prophet
by The Quiet One inregarding what some have said here about the wt being a false prophet.. i would like to make my point regarding the wt not being a false prophet... so please, if you can be patient enough to read this, at least try to understand what i am getting at.. a false prophet is one who, according to deuteronomy, makes a false prediction of the future and claims that the prediction came from god, or in other words claiming that 'god has said he will do a certain thing at a certain time' etc.. for example, hypothetically speaking, if someone had claimed: "god will bring about the end of the world in 2010", they would have been proven to be a false prophet, obviously.
but, as an example, imagine a man who claimed the position of a prophet of god, (as moses did, because although he was not the type of prophet that predicted the future.. he was still a prophet or spokesman for god) and that he had publicised worldwide, according to his interpretation of a (for example) prophecy found in the book of isaiah, that the world would end in 2010.. and he had also stated that he was not saying that god will end the world in that year.. but only that there was biblical evidence that god might do so.
that would clearly have been a mistake.
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The Quiet One
OUTSMART said: "If I use the same reasoning that you allow the society to use.....then I've never been wrong in my life." -- Yes, you could in theory have kept changing what you meant when you predicted something, but nobody would believe you/care what you predict by now..because you have no other evidence to show that you could be worth trusting, but that is beyond the scope of this topic. Whether a person could hypothetically keep changing what their predictions meant as each one fails to come true, indefinitely and with no time limit, is irrelevant to this discussion.. The WT have made only one prophecy in Gods name, and they have a time limit. Only the understanding of the word 'generation', which affects the length of time from 1914, but only in a finite sense, has been refined, or altered if you like,..This can't go on indefinitely.. If you predict something that has never happened before will happen within a specific time-frame, as the WT has with the anchor point being 1914, you will eventually be proven right/wrong. The 1914 generation prophecy is based on something specific (Armageddon) happening before the generation (of contemporaries) runs out.. Whether they are false prophets will be resolved. There can be no further interpretations of the word generation, and the one future prediction in Gods name that they have undeniably made ('Gods promise') will bring about either the end of the world or the end of the WT. Unless anyone can prove that it could go on indefinitely with a credible definition.. We know that 'contemporaries' is the breaking point, a generation can't be stretched any further. KNOWSNOTHING -- You don't have to believe it, nor do you have to be a jw. What is your point? I'm merely trying to show that the WT can't just be easily dismissed as a false prophet. There's no Biblical basis for it up to now..
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179
The Watchtower is NOT a false prophet
by The Quiet One inregarding what some have said here about the wt being a false prophet.. i would like to make my point regarding the wt not being a false prophet... so please, if you can be patient enough to read this, at least try to understand what i am getting at.. a false prophet is one who, according to deuteronomy, makes a false prediction of the future and claims that the prediction came from god, or in other words claiming that 'god has said he will do a certain thing at a certain time' etc.. for example, hypothetically speaking, if someone had claimed: "god will bring about the end of the world in 2010", they would have been proven to be a false prophet, obviously.
but, as an example, imagine a man who claimed the position of a prophet of god, (as moses did, because although he was not the type of prophet that predicted the future.. he was still a prophet or spokesman for god) and that he had publicised worldwide, according to his interpretation of a (for example) prophecy found in the book of isaiah, that the world would end in 2010.. and he had also stated that he was not saying that god will end the world in that year.. but only that there was biblical evidence that god might do so.
that would clearly have been a mistake.
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The Quiet One
OUTSMART said: "If the society can chalk past failures of their predictions up to old light.......then can't anyone?" -- As I've already explained, the other predictions were not said in a definite sense, as in 'God will do this' without any disclaimer saying that it might not happen, they were at worst over-hyped theories. As I've said, the 'generation of 1914' prophecy has not been proven to have failed yet..
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179
The Watchtower is NOT a false prophet
by The Quiet One inregarding what some have said here about the wt being a false prophet.. i would like to make my point regarding the wt not being a false prophet... so please, if you can be patient enough to read this, at least try to understand what i am getting at.. a false prophet is one who, according to deuteronomy, makes a false prediction of the future and claims that the prediction came from god, or in other words claiming that 'god has said he will do a certain thing at a certain time' etc.. for example, hypothetically speaking, if someone had claimed: "god will bring about the end of the world in 2010", they would have been proven to be a false prophet, obviously.
but, as an example, imagine a man who claimed the position of a prophet of god, (as moses did, because although he was not the type of prophet that predicted the future.. he was still a prophet or spokesman for god) and that he had publicised worldwide, according to his interpretation of a (for example) prophecy found in the book of isaiah, that the world would end in 2010.. and he had also stated that he was not saying that god will end the world in that year.. but only that there was biblical evidence that god might do so.
that would clearly have been a mistake.
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The Quiet One
OUTSMART said: " Do you really think that 50 years from now.....when the overlapping generation explanation proves to be false.....that will be it? Do you really think the society will say"well.....we were wrong. " -- Is there another definition of the word generation that could include a third overlapping group? No.. so they would lose all credibility with any jw.
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179
The Watchtower is NOT a false prophet
by The Quiet One inregarding what some have said here about the wt being a false prophet.. i would like to make my point regarding the wt not being a false prophet... so please, if you can be patient enough to read this, at least try to understand what i am getting at.. a false prophet is one who, according to deuteronomy, makes a false prediction of the future and claims that the prediction came from god, or in other words claiming that 'god has said he will do a certain thing at a certain time' etc.. for example, hypothetically speaking, if someone had claimed: "god will bring about the end of the world in 2010", they would have been proven to be a false prophet, obviously.
but, as an example, imagine a man who claimed the position of a prophet of god, (as moses did, because although he was not the type of prophet that predicted the future.. he was still a prophet or spokesman for god) and that he had publicised worldwide, according to his interpretation of a (for example) prophecy found in the book of isaiah, that the world would end in 2010.. and he had also stated that he was not saying that god will end the world in that year.. but only that there was biblical evidence that god might do so.
that would clearly have been a mistake.
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The Quiet One
BANDONTHERUN said: "A false prophet is what a reputable dictionary defines. You showed nothing that indicates that some odd verse in Deuteromony controls the discussion." -- The 'odd verse' is the Biblical definition that people such as jwfacts use to convince Bible believers that the WT claims to be a prophet+they made false predictions=they're a false prophet according to the definition given in the 'odd verse' in Deuteronomy. If this scripture cannot be applied, and I've shown that it cannot because the WT didn't make a false prediction of the future 'in Gods name' (which means the person saying 'God WILL do such-a-thing on this date' in a definite sense, such as Harold Camping did, not 'we think He might but He may not'..), then the WT is not scripturally a 'false prophet' in any provable sense, and the argument that 'this scripture proves undeniably that they are a false prophet not guided by God' is rendered invalid.. If anyone wants to apply the label of false prophet, without any SCRIPTURAL basis, that's up to them..
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179
The Watchtower is NOT a false prophet
by The Quiet One inregarding what some have said here about the wt being a false prophet.. i would like to make my point regarding the wt not being a false prophet... so please, if you can be patient enough to read this, at least try to understand what i am getting at.. a false prophet is one who, according to deuteronomy, makes a false prediction of the future and claims that the prediction came from god, or in other words claiming that 'god has said he will do a certain thing at a certain time' etc.. for example, hypothetically speaking, if someone had claimed: "god will bring about the end of the world in 2010", they would have been proven to be a false prophet, obviously.
but, as an example, imagine a man who claimed the position of a prophet of god, (as moses did, because although he was not the type of prophet that predicted the future.. he was still a prophet or spokesman for god) and that he had publicised worldwide, according to his interpretation of a (for example) prophecy found in the book of isaiah, that the world would end in 2010.. and he had also stated that he was not saying that god will end the world in that year.. but only that there was biblical evidence that god might do so.
that would clearly have been a mistake.
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The Quiet One
WASBLIND said: "Again, the apostles , unlike the Jehovah's witnesses, did not go out teaching things they had to retract there is no comparision" -- (John 21:22,23 is an example of a false expectation based on an incorrect understanding of Jesus' words) Here we have perhaps the crux of this whole apostles versus WT matter.. Jw's publicly taught a false expectation that they had, based on a wrong understanding.. whereas the apostles, as far as we know from what we are told, didn't tell the public about their false expectations (another example in Luke 19:11), they talked about these things amongst themselves. They didn't have what they felt was the date for Armageddon, though, and they had not seen any sign of the last days at that point, so the situation wasn't the same.. Jw's at least promoted a sense of urgency about the concept that the system of things could be about to end, as the Bible clearly says it will, even if the date turned out to be false.
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179
The Watchtower is NOT a false prophet
by The Quiet One inregarding what some have said here about the wt being a false prophet.. i would like to make my point regarding the wt not being a false prophet... so please, if you can be patient enough to read this, at least try to understand what i am getting at.. a false prophet is one who, according to deuteronomy, makes a false prediction of the future and claims that the prediction came from god, or in other words claiming that 'god has said he will do a certain thing at a certain time' etc.. for example, hypothetically speaking, if someone had claimed: "god will bring about the end of the world in 2010", they would have been proven to be a false prophet, obviously.
but, as an example, imagine a man who claimed the position of a prophet of god, (as moses did, because although he was not the type of prophet that predicted the future.. he was still a prophet or spokesman for god) and that he had publicised worldwide, according to his interpretation of a (for example) prophecy found in the book of isaiah, that the world would end in 2010.. and he had also stated that he was not saying that god will end the world in that year.. but only that there was biblical evidence that god might do so.
that would clearly have been a mistake.
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The Quiet One
(I had to read what was going on, and I have to reply to this, sorry to go back on my word but I ain't perfect...) Wasblind, you are absolutely right, the apostles were a group of prophets.. One thing I must disagree on, though.. WASBLIND said: "The WTS always compare themselves to the apostles when they try to point out that they are not false prophets..Big Fail, The apostles did not teach the things they imagined or thought" --- Please read 1 Corinthians 5:12, and 25-35 (the context of 25-35 is that anything he says here about unmarried persons, or virgins, was his opinion.. just to keep things simple for Wasblind) .. After reading these, please remember that the WT ALSO said that God had not told them 1975, it just seemed to be in line with the Bible, and that nothing might happen.. Paul was an INSPIRED prophet, yet not every word that he wrote (even in the Bible itself) in his letters was directly from God, as he admits..He could express his own view, under guidance from the Spirit. But he was still a prophet GUIDED by Holy Spirit, even though not every single thing that he taught came DIRECTLY from God. He was ALLOWED by God to teach his own view sometimes, even to put it into the Bible.. And the WT doesn't claim that they are infallible/inspired prophets at all, merely that they are guided by Gods spirit, and that they may be wrong when making an interpretation of prophecy.. Would you disagree that Paul was a Spirit guided, yet imperfect, prophet that sometimes taught his own views?